79: Eating You Alive with Sheanne and Dan Moskaluk

Sheanne Moskaluk  00:00

Fifteen years ago, you you look at me, I'm the obese one, and you automatically think that's the one who's got the health problems coming around the corner. So, you know, so we were going along is the fall of 2013. We were looking amazing. We were feeling amazing.

Dan Moskaluk  00:18

Within two sentences he looked at, he said, clutching papers in his hand, his Dan, it's not kidney stones or kidney infection, it's cancer. And he said it exactly like that. And you know that that word just reverberates. And just as the cliche is showing the movies time slows and you're listening to it. And he started to explain that it's kidney cancer and your right kidney is one massive tumor. That was the exact moment that I fully committed to a plant based lifestyle of that was it you know, in the emergency room and emergency after hearing everything that Sheanne had been talking about and listening and, you know, sinking into me as well. There was no argument for me it was essentially that's it we're I'm going whole food plant based from that moment onwards.

Maya Acosta  01:06

Are you ready to upgrade your health to a new level and do so by learning from experts in the field of lifestyle medicine and plant based nutrition? Well, you are in the right place. Welcome to the Plant Based DFW podcast weekly show. We are your hosts Dr. Rizwan Bukhari, and Maya Acosta. Every week, we will feature guests who are either physicians, dieticians, health coaches, or chefs who will tell us about their journeys towards becoming plant based, and how they have helped others. And as you dive into the episodes and never forget, the more you implement these healthy lifestyle changes, the more you will upgrade your health. Welcome back to another episode. And friends. This is one of our longer interviews, and I enjoyed it so much that I decided not to admit anything. This is one of my favorite interviews because we had the opportunity to speak with a Canadian couple who was featured in the documentary eating you alive. They are Sheanne and Dan Muskaluk. Each one of them has an incredible story to share. Sheanne has a wonderful weight loss story. At one point she was weighing close to 300 pounds when she discovered a video by Dr. John McDougall called The Perils of Dairy. This changed her entire perspective on how she ran her household. The family went along with the changes and Sheanne and Dan were looking great and feeling great. then two years later, Dan discovered that he had stage four kidney cancer. In this episode, we hear each of the stories we learn how they have been there for one another. We also learn how they are giving back to the community by sharing their stories, so that others may also thrive on a plant based diet. In addition, they volunteer at animal sanctuaries. They are voices for the animals, and they care about our planet as well. Meet Sheanne and Dan Moskaluk.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  02:56

This is where we first saw you guys.

Maya Acosta  02:59

Yeah, they were featured in the movie Eating You Alive. And we learned about them early on, even before the actual movie was released. So we've known about you guys for quite a while and we'll tell you how we found out about that. But welcome, Sheanne and Dan,

Sheanne Moskaluk  03:12

Thank you so much for having me. Glad

Dan Moskaluk  03:13

to see you guys. Yeah,

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  03:14

yeah, it's been a while. So we originally met face to face for the first time on on the Holistic Holiday at Sea cruise almost two years ago. Right.

Sheanne Moskaluk  03:24

And the world was a different place back then, wasn't it? We're lucky to get that in.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  03:28

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I say that all the time. Because that year, my and I went to five different plant based nutrition conferences. And I thought I thought I was conferenced out. And then we've gone. We've had nothing since. And so we were kind of glad we got it all in. So we're really excited to have you guys on the show

Maya Acosta  03:45

An individual that risk sort of worked with and you can explain more about Randy. But Randy Titony was here in Dallas, the vascular center, we all went out to dinner and he and I immediately noticed that we were eating the healthy choice. Like almost like a Buddha Bowl kind of thing at the restaurant. And he was like I noticed you got that. And so we started having this conversation, he realized that I was playing bass, I realize he's playing bass. He's like, talk to me more about it. And he wrote, I had already been doing my own homework. I think when we were leaving the restaurant, he says, I have something for you takes out the video and tells me that he's in it and even autographs it. I don't even know if I can say that. But it was not even available yet. Like it had not even been released. I think there was another cut after this one. But that's when I heard your story.

Sheanne Moskaluk  04:37

Oh, that's so great. I've had an opportunity to meet him a couple of times now at Plantrician the conference down in California. So

Dan Moskaluk  04:45

You know we've met we managed to meet quite a few of the cast members and online Of course we're connected and it we certainly are like family and Marilee Jacobs and Paul Kennedy Jr, the producers and the whole team. just fabulous. It was fabulous endeavor. It's really it really gave us the springboard for our platform and what a vehicle What a beautiful moving film very educational and health reversal stories. cases in it are just phenomenal.

Maya Acosta  05:16

It's one of the better movies that we've seen and too bad. He hasn't made it yet to places like Netflix, for example, or,

Sheanne Moskaluk  05:22

yeah, well, fingers crossed. Right, right.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  05:25

So why don't you guys each tell us a little bit about yourselves and how you became plant based?

Sheanne Moskaluk  05:32

Well, I guess it really starts with our son. He was 15 he joined a gym, you wanted to be a bodybuilder weightlifter, and at the gym, they told him you would need to take protein powders if you were ever going to put on muscle. So he came home, he said this to me and like a good mom off. I went to the health food store. And I was looking at those giant tubs of whey protein with the paragraphs of ingredients. And the sales clerk comes up to me and she says, oh, who are you buying this for? I said, My son, how old 15 she kind of leans in and whispers to me in a really soft voice because you need to go home and do some research before you give this to your kids. And I thought when are you ever in a store and they deter you from buying a product so that really, you know, intrigued me. So I came home and I googled whey protein powder and buy by some good luck. I came across John McDougall, Dr. John McDougall, YouTube video, the Perils of Dairy. And I watched it. And I remember thinking, who is this crazy quack right? Because it was completely the opposite of everything I'd ever been taught. Until my mid 40s, right? I needed milk for strong teeth and strong bones and it does a body good. And you need to make sure your kids are getting lots of dairy products for calcium, blah, blah, blah, all of that. So I watched it once. And it was just so you know, the fuddling I was just like, what is this that I watched it three more or two more times, like three times in a row back to back to back. And, of course YouTube, there's always a side panel of different doctors and of course there was Esselstyn, Ornish, who else was there to go, and Colin Campbell, who I had no idea who that was at the time, but I started to watch all these YouTube videos, and it just, but absolutely intrigued me, it just sparked some kind of flame. And I and at that time, I was an avid reader. It was in book clubs, all that kind of stuff. That was 2010. I haven't read fiction since 2010. And so that Christmas, Dan got me a Kindle. And so I was able to download all of the these doctors, books, researchers and doctors. And I just started to read and at that time, I wasn't working outside the home. So I remember like getting everybody off to school, I had two teenagers and a husband who was working shift work. And so I get them out of the house. And then I would literally sit and read for maybe five or six hours, I just couldn't get enough. And so I started leaning in that was the fall of 2010, I started cooking differently. And then I started to make myself a plant based meal. And I was still cooking standard American diet for the kids and Dan because they were not interested in what I was doing at all. And so it kept I kept going that way. And then finally I read The China Study in the early in the spring of 2011. And that was the quintessential moment that I realized I could no longer feed myself or my family in that manner. And so it was April 1 April Fool's day that I decided that's it. And I cleaned out the whole house I took you know, a big bin over to our neighbor's frozen bacon and pounds of butter and everything and I'm like, hey, do you want this and they're looking at me like

Dan Moskaluk  09:01

some stuff went to the woods for the coyotes Yeah,

Sheanne Moskaluk  09:03

we got the freezer ready meat just yet. And so it was like kind of a you know, as much as I've been leaning in, it was overnight for the kids and Dan I was like too bad. So sad. This is how we eat at home. And that's just the way it's going to be. And so that first month of fully committing I lost 15 pounds. And I have to say that at that time I weighed 293 pounds, almost 300 pounds. And I had tried throughout my life I classic story, you know, I gained a lot of weight for my first pregnancy more for my second always wanted to lose it always struggled with my weight. Did all the diets you know the Jenny Craig's, the Weight Watchers, everything like that. And sure they would work while you were on them. But then as soon as you hit a goal and you went back to eating what everybody else ate course the waking back. So I kind of given up on losing weight, it just didn't feel like it was ever something I was going to be able to achieve. And so I really did this for the health benefits for, you know, I've been wanting to lay

Dan Moskaluk  10:19

ahead, yeah, older

Sheanne Moskaluk  10:20

I reading all these books. And I thought, you know, I'm a prime candidate for heart disease, and diabetes and cancer and all of these things due to my weight. And maybe I should be changing how I eat. So, so I lost 15 pounds that first month, and I was totally shocked because we still call ourselves high volume eaters. Because we eat you know, I was eating mountains of food, it just happened to be all plants. And so that was astonishing to me and I so I just kept going. And it was like, I never had an end goal in mind, because I never imagined that it would ever become as much as it was. So it was like, okay, maybe I could lose 30 pounds. Oh, maybe I could lose 50 Oh my god, maybe 70 maybe not hundred, oh my god, and it just kept going. And over the next two years, I lost 133 pounds.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  11:16

Wow. Oh my goodness,

Sheanne Moskaluk  11:17

it was life changing. I don't think until you're obese, or you have somebody in your family or a loved one who is obese, that you really understand. The struggle, the shame, the embarrassment, um, all of those things. Not only that,

Dan Moskaluk  11:36

but how what it puts you what lifestyle and how it, you know, hinders you in participating with the rest of the family if you have a family that is somewhat more active than the one individual?

Sheanne Moskaluk  11:48

Yeah, I mean, I always say I was, I was really a spectator in our family's life. I mean, Dan took the kids skiing, he took them camping, he took them canoeing, and I didn't because I just I was too obese, I was too out of shape. Um, I just couldn't participate in family life. So I watched and I made comfort food, I was the one who was making that, you know, and food was my currency I if somebody did me a favor, or I would make them a cheesecake, or that's what I was known as, and I think you need to nominal baker and cook. You need to stamp out an identity for yourself because you feel like you don't fit into all the other categories. So you think, okay, that's my identity. I'm the one that makes cheesecakes and all kinds of bakes cakes, and all of that kind of stuff pies. And I was really known in our community for that three year running by Queen at the local fair.

Maya Acosta  12:45

Wow, congratulations.

Sheanne Moskaluk  12:48

Well, you know, and it was, it was odd, because it was my great grandmother's pie recipe. And it was marred. And it was like, if it didn't have lard or butter in it, I didn't make it right. Because it was like I was adamant. 

Dan Moskaluk  13:01

At the time, you know, we thought we were eating healthy prior to eating plant based, you know, we were never processed food from packages or boxes, everything was always from scratch cookie. And you have the idea and the ideology and the mindset that that's healthy, but a little then we found out Oh,

Sheanne Moskaluk  13:17

and we still you know, we do get a lot of people reach out to us and, and communicate with us. And they're like, Oh, we have a pretty healthy diet. And, and I'm like, you know, Okay, tell me what your diet is. And of course, it was the diet that we were eating. And so I think we're all led to believe, you know, I do most of our nutritional information comes from well funded advertising campaigns.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  13:40

I mean, oftentimes, we just don't know what we don't know.

Sheanne Moskaluk  13:43

Exactly. And you can't blame yourself. I mean, this is what you were grown up, you were taught this as you were growing up that you need all of these different foods and and so you do that and you feed your kids. I mean, I just sometimes I lie awake at night thinking about the crap that I fed my kids. I mean, they're both now plant based or vegan. But you know, I always think, did I plant the seed of prostate cancer or breast cancer by the crap that I was feeding my kids?

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  14:13

We just recently spoke with the pediatrician, a plant based pediatrician, who, you know, one of her things is that she just wants to be able to tell the parents Do you realize what it is you're feeding your children, then maybe that they'll they'll change what they're doing.

Dan Moskaluk  14:28

It's not a slight or to, you know, to pressure or insult somebody but it's just that here's some proper information with the very robot bus data. So what we've been taught prior to now what we know really, with the democratization of information, and it's interesting in the two years that we were from 2011 onwards, so I was eating that way 95% of the time, so in the home reading plant base and then being a police officer 12 hour shifts, four on four off night day shift And I was out of the home scarfing crap down, you know, and but even eating that way, 95% of the time. At the time, I shed about 35 pounds over the two years, I got rid of high blood pressure, high cholesterol, metabolic syndrome, and pre diabetes all vanished. And so it was very, very encouraging. And in particular, you know, you start to lead your, your mid 40s, late 40s retirements on the horizon. And then again to you look at some other individuals and you know, the the illnesses, chronic illnesses with heart disease and diabetes and so on. And, and then so you say you're so Wow, this is this is this is interesting, and it works. So when she made the decision, April 1, and and you guys went fully plant based at home, how what was your, 

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  15:47

What was your take on that?

Dan Moskaluk  15:49

Well, I guess I guess it was, okay, let's do this. And then because, you know, she was, you know, feeding me the information as well, I read this today, you should watch this, check a little bit about this. Yeah, she was, you know, she was fortunate that she had that at the time, the time to dedicate to it. And, but again, as a, you know, a self taught and the learners you know, she's phenomenal with the information retention. So the things that were being repeated to me is that okay, well, that's all valid points. And I've seen for myself, what's happened, but initially, of course, great cook, but when you change your, you know, your cooking strategies and stuff, yeah, the first month or so, you know, some of the food and your palate is still changing.

Sheanne Moskaluk  16:29

And there were some epic fails for sure. And, and it was it was a running joke is that, you know, I would serve something and the three of them would pick at it, and then they were like, okay, we're gonna go for a drive. thru. Right, yeah, it's like, you know,

Dan Moskaluk  16:45

we live about 30 miles out of town. So it was quite a drive.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  16:49

Yeah, yeah. We went through our rice and beans phase. I, you know, early on, and you know, you know, even, you know, a salad and rice and beans, that's, you know, like, what everybody's perception of going vegan is and yeah, so it took us a while to to evolve and, and changing,

Sheanne Moskaluk  17:07

especially when you're dragging teenagers along, you know, they're not the easiest people to feel the best of times. And so, you know, and

Dan Moskaluk  17:15

The boy versus the girl boys, you know, if it's somewhat tasty, keep them fed, they grunt they're happy. But the girls on the other hand, but it's funny, Haley, even as a child, she would always pick up food and on the plate, Oh, is this dead? cow? Is this dead pig? Is this dead? And we're like,

Sheanne Moskaluk  17:33

That used to annoy the heck out of me, like, you know, just beat your children starving to death in the world, blah, blah, blah. And if only I listened to her, we would have saved yourself a world of Yeah.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  17:41

Did she jump on board pretty quickly, then?

Sheanne Moskaluk  17:44

Yeah. I mean, I would let them have anything they wanted on Sunday, you know, I thought, okay, let's just, you know, eat this way. And then Sunday, you can have whatever you want. And that was for the first few months. And they would on Monday morning, the three of them would go, oh, gosh, I don't feel that well, or I have an upset stomach, or I feel kind of just not good. And so it was a couple of months of that before it really and I think humans are pretty slow learners. But it took them a while to realize that, you know, that kind of food. actually make me feel that good. Yeah. So they started getting more and more on board. And now they're 24 and 27. And they're both plant based still. So

Dan Moskaluk  18:27

I think too as a couple, as a family learning something as important as cooking and cooking together and preparing food and healthy food and really taking the dive into Okay, why why are we eating this way, but to learn together, a new style of cooking is a really interesting phenomenon. 

Sheanne Moskaluk  18:44

You know, and I think, you know, when we speak, we our peer group comes out, generally speaking, we're speaking to people that are, you know, 40 50 60 because all those bad habits have come home to roost. for the kids, at least I know. Yeah, I would say that for our kids. It was more about the animal ethics. I think that's what really, really got them. Because of course, when you're a teenager, you're immortal, and you're never going to get sick and die. So that didn't seem to matter to them as much as as the animals that really kind of got them. So yeah, so we were kind of going along. I was having I was like reverting back to my 20s it seemed, you know, I could fit back into my wedding dress. And I was like, going through clothes, I was having to buy new clothes every couple of months. It was it was just astonishing that I'd struggled my whole life. And then I made the switch on what was on my plate, and it just melted away effortlessly. And it was astonishing. And so we're kind of going along with the one thing to that as it was happening, 

Dan Moskaluk  19:54

Of course that I'm just flabbergasted My gosh, I've got that younger Beautiful, she's still beautiful all the time, but to say, Wow, here she is, again, the woman that I married, but it wasn't only the physical changes, I think it was the emotional well being and what it did for her, you know, personally, and and also, to say that wow, we may have really, you know, she may have curbed and diverted, you know, chronic illnesses that were probably just on the horizon 

Sheanne Moskaluk  20:27

Because you were always worried about my hair. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and that's the funny thing is like, you know, if you look at a picture of us back 15 years ago, you you, you look at me, I'm the obese one, and you automatically think that's the one who's got the health problems coming around the corner. So, you know, so we were going along, we were, you know, hitting as the fall of 2013. We were looking amazing, we were feeling amazing.

Dan Moskaluk  20:56

People, you know, again, to the you know, the funny stories of coming up and meeting, you know, friends that hadn't seen for a while, they would, you know, speak with me, and she'd be wearing sunglasses, and maybe not speaking just yet. And they would always square shoulder to shoulder with me, and then kind of glance over kind of this little look of disdain, or who is this person there's with Dan, until she take her sunglasses off and start speaking and the jaws withdraw.

Sheanne Moskaluk  21:21

I think they thought Dan was having an affair and

Dan Moskaluk  21:25

Dan and Sheanne split up, nobody heard about it. And then to when you'd encounter it, you know? 

Sheanne Moskaluk  21:30

Yeah yeah, it was, it was, I think one of the most interesting things is, you know, you get a lot of people going, Oh, my gosh, you look amazing. But one of the things that I wasn't expecting was that I would meet acquaintances, women, you know, shopping or something like that. And they were women that I had known. were struggling with their own weight. And they would see me, and it happened on two occasions. And it just took me by such surprise, they would start to sob. And it was just so astonishing, because I think that they had struggled their whole lives and had given up and then they saw me do it. And it kind of, you know, we all see those ads, you know, of the before and afters, but it's not somebody you know, and you and here I was, and I'd be like in the grocery store, and I'd have somebody in tears because I'd lost all of this weight. And they were, they had just so been so desperate to lose weight themselves and just didn't know how and just had given up and then it was, I hope it gave them hope, as well. Yeah. So that was a really interesting phenomenon. It was it was a crazy two years. Yeah, it was really 

Dan Moskaluk  22:40

You hear it often too his people, when people start adopting or transitioning to or, you know, overnight transition to a plant based lifestyle, is that you start to notice subtle changes, you know, it's like skin glow, and hair and so on. It's like, What's going on here? So we got we got a lot of that have to you. What do you guys do?

Sheanne Moskaluk  23:03

Yeah, so we're coming in the fall of 2013. Dan was going to be retiring soon, kids are going to be moving out. We were gonna be empty nesters. Life was good. We thought we had the world by the tail and that we were bulletproof.

Dan Moskaluk  23:14

Yeah. And then so a week was the beginning the first week of November that I was suffering from abdominal pain throughout the whole week. And the past I'm a police officer with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for about 33 and a half years and the last 10 of which have have been as media spokesperson police spokesperson so not out in you know in the cars patrolling.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  23:41

But wait a minute, I thought you guys rode horses. 

Dan Moskaluk  23:46

But yeah, I unfortunately, I never got into the musical ride. But yes, yes. queens cowboy.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  23:54

I got a cousin in law who's announced he also so I, I joke around with him about that.

Dan Moskaluk  23:58

So at the office, everybody was noticing I look pale. I was kind of sweaty, and you know what's going on? You know, well, I just got I got this abdominal pain. And I put it off throughout the whole week. And I was thinking, Oh man, I might be developing kidney stones or kidney infection because that was something that was predominant and gastrointestinal issues in my family, given the lifestyle of French Canadian cuisine and, you know, some alcohol and cigars and whatnot. And so throughout the week, I put it off and then the Saturday I was splitting several cords of wood. And by the end of the day, I came back into the house and just buckled in pain as we've got to go to the hospital. I can't I can't go on something's going on here. So off we went to the emergency ward at a local hospital and they booked us in. They conducted just a whole slew of tests. And I did advice I'm thinking maybe kidney stones or kidney infection. So after waiting several hours, of course, then the physician came back and they ushered us into an examination room and it was all because you know there's the gurney in there. Nowhere to sit and he just stepped into the room, we were just standing there. And within two sentences he looked at, he said, clutching papers in his hand, he says, Dan, it's not kidney stones or kidney infection, it's cancer. And he said it exactly like that. And you know that that word just reverberates. And just as the cliche is showing the movies time slows, and you're listening to it. And he started to explain that it's kidney cancer, and you're right kidney is one massive tumor. And the scans show that the tumor has metastasized, or it's spread out of the kidney into the vein of Kava, which is your main vein, and it appears to be into your lymph nodes. So that in a nutshell, he was explaining to us that it was staged for renal cell carcinoma. And it

Maya Acosta  25:49

That must have been absolutely devastating, especially when you've been on this healthy path of self care eating plant based foods, probably even you were probably even more physically active as a result, right? You probably have more energy.

Dan Moskaluk  26:03

Yeah. And it's interesting that I looked at, you know, even that night going into the hospital, other than not feeling well, I looked like I do today, maybe even a little slimmer. And so we were just like, well, how can this be so you know, the rug gets pulled from under your feet, we see you spend a week of notifying you know, family and breaking that news to them. And, and then going into work and again, fortunate that I'm a federal employee. So, you know, benefits. were very fortunate for that. So I told everybody that, you know, I was taking a leave of absence and that there was stage four kidney cancer that my prognosis was months to two years if that. And it was followed by more visits to the specialists who explained exactly what had occurred and that you're, you know, the Vanna cab is that trunk to vein that all your major organs are attached to. So you describe that say the tumor was now growing into that upwards towards my lung, lungs and heart. And that they said the first order of the day would be surgery to remove the kidney is an extremely nephrectomy and either dissect the vena cava, if they weren't able to just simply pull the tumor out, and also clean out some lymph nodes. And they said that, you know, this is this is really bad. And stage four kidney cancer is terminal, there's no effective treatment for it. And then they said, but because you're such a healthy individual, you know, the camp or the the surgery itself was an extreme surgery that that had a lot of risks attached to it. They said again, because you're so healthy, you're an excellent candidate for the for the surgery. So the we got a pretty quick date and quick turnaround, from November 9 being the the night in the emergency ward. And to note, that was the exact moment that I fully committed to a plant based lifestyle of that was it you know, in the emergency room and emergency after hearing everything that Shawn had been talking about and listening and, you know, sinking into me as well, there was no argument for me, it was essentially That's it, we're I'm going whole food plant base from that moment onwards. So off, we went to the four of us. That's how we spent our Christmas Eve at the Vancouver General Hospital. For the surgery, the surgery appointment. And Christmas Eve, we had the two nephrologists and cardiologist on hand for the surgery because there was risk of perhaps bleeding out on the table. So they said, Well, we can either kind of open up a little bit or make a massive incision to really have a good look around. I said, Do what you got to do, you know, so yeah, I was from large Chevron across my abdomen, they removed the kidney, they were able to pull the tumor out of the vena cava without dissecting in which I think was a big plus. And then they remove several immediate lymph nodes around the kidney. But again, I had several distant lymph nodes that were affected. And of course, you can't go around the body plucking lymph nodes out. So the there was three that were quite concerning that they remain one my mid back by my windpipe and then one of their lower chest area. Um, so

Sheanne Moskaluk  29:18

so and then to back up, you know, I think after his diagnosis, you know, I think for two weeks you just kind of are in a bit of a zombie state because you can't believe this is happening to you, this happens to other people not to you. And, and then after about two weeks, it was kind of like, Okay, well, I've been doing all this reading. And I really kind of started to focus on cancer and nutrition. And as we all know, there's about 100 years of data showing that animal protein promotes cancer cell growth. And I remember that, you know, you're so angry because nobody tells you this. And then you also are hopeful Because, okay, we've been doing this for a couple of years. Let's put it to the test. And so we really, you know, we had been kind of, you know, vegan plant based, but we really took that deep dive.

Dan Moskaluk  30:15

November 9 onwards. Yeah,

Sheanne Moskaluk  30:16

Well, because we knew this huge surgery was coming up. So it was, we just got so clean and mean. And it was what I called my program of nutritional excellence. So it was no broken grains, no oil, no salt, no sugar, tons of greens, no processed foods, it was just such an amazing high quality diet to get him ready for this huge surgery. And to actually, you know, okay, let's, you know, Colin Campbell says this is, so let's do it kind of thing. So, we, we did that, and you were like, eating mountains of greens at every meal?

Dan Moskaluk  30:57

Yeah, it, it was amazing, too. Because, you know, your palate changes as well, as you transition to this, this type of food and, you know, the, the cravings for the the high impact tastes of sugar, salt and oils. And you you adapt to it, and it becomes very, very tasty. Yeah. And we never felt deprived, even back then with without cleanup that we

Sheanne Moskaluk  31:22

were, you know, we were highly motivated to I mean, a

Dan Moskaluk  31:25

largely motivated and self selected is a term that Alan Goldhammer uses for his program. So we self selected, because he thought we're gonna do this. And we were highly motivated, definitely just stacking the odds in, in, in our favor in my favor. And everybody said, Well, why did you go plant based, I didn't want to die. I, you know, I want to do everything that I could to hopefully that would skirt this, 

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  31:48

If I might make a comment for our audience. You know, what's the point? What's the idea behind a plant based diet, so much of our audience already knows all this. But for those of us who don't, the concept here is that a plant based whole food plant based diet is full of nutrition. It's full of Phytonutrients, antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals and fiber. Whereas a standard American or Western diet doesn't it's it's cancer promoting its disease promoting, it's full of salt, oil, and sugar and processed foods, which we all know, are extremely unhealthy for us and much, and all the scientific data and evidence point to these things. It's these are these diets are really opposites of a diet. They're opposite dichotomies of opposite ends of the spectrum. So you had committed to the healthiest known evidence based diet that there is.

Sheanne Moskaluk  32:36

And you know, and it was interesting, too, that we had, you know, you always get those people that those naysayers that like to give you a little dig because they're so anti vegan anti plant based, and they're like, Oh, we've been on this diet for two years, and you still got cancer, kind of like that little snippy. Oh, I guess it's not that great, after all, but I think it's really important to know that a cancer of Dan's magnitude would have grown, we've been told up to 15 to 20 years, it could have silently been creeping along. So it was growing through, you know, most of his adult life, it was certainly not those last two years that had initiated it. In fact, in my humble opinion, I feel that we had slowed the cancer growth in those last two years.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  33:19

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, cancers are slow growing, they start, they start years, if not decades, before they manifest themselves clinically, because they're very small and microscopic, when they start and it takes many, many generations of doubling in their size before they become you know, meaningful, and you can have a mass inside you that you don't know for years. And until they become they don't become clinically significant until they start to you know, change your physiology in some way. So I think you're exactly right.

Sheanne Moskaluk  33:47

Yeah. So the surgery, um, luckily, I mean, he You were so healthy.

Dan Moskaluk  33:54

Yeah. It was interesting to like I said the the they were amazed they said, you know, you stand a very good chance of fully recovering from the surgery because of it and I got through the surgeries in the hospital for about six, six days. And it was a brutal surgery and I you know, I woke up post surgery and I had an intravenous in my neck, I had one of my arm. I had a catheter attached and an epidural for for pain management. And you know, again, never would I've ever dreamt or envisioned to see myself sitting in a hospital bed like that and yeah, it was it was it was difficult that to comprehend that you know, you think you live a healthy life that yet Here you are. So the the surgery incision was 53 staples, essentially approximately across my abdomen and like I said in that large from, from the lower from one side of the abdomen up to that you know your sternum and back down again, and I got home and for the first week or so, I was on a lot of different types of medicines or pharmaceuticals, they for the pain management for to stave off infection, you know, there was something for everything and this combinations,

Sheanne Moskaluk  35:09

each one had a side effect, they give them another one to combat that

Dan Moskaluk  35:13

side. And then so I found that, you know, a I couldn't sleep. And it was an interesting phenomenon to, you know, you talk about insomnia, but this was nothing, this was just incredible compared to what, you know, regular insomnia so I couldn't sleep and then I, you know, the one one point, I got up in the middle of the night because of feeling nauseous and so you're you know, and I haven't had meat for days, because I can eat because I've got all this across my abdomen. And I felt nauseous, I was throwing up or just wrenching my, my gut, on an empty stomach and the incision point, everything was so painful. And I said, That's enough. Like I'm stopping all this medication, I'll go down to a Tylenol for some pain management. And once I stopped all the medication, slip, sleep came back, and then slowly but surely, and then for for getting nutrients back into me because within a couple of weeks, I lost a lot of weight I shed, you know, a you're good. And you lost your sense of smell, lost my sense of smell and taste and then

Sheanne Moskaluk  36:14

I could not get you to eat no. So I yeah, he couldn't eat and I couldn't get him to eat. And so I I thought, okay, what's highly cortically dense and full of nutrients nuts. So I had a little bowl, and that's beside the bed, and he would just graze on them, like literally a cashew, you know, every half hour, maybe another pecan. And I swear to god him through

Dan Moskaluk  36:39

Oh Yeah, that and water. And then once the sleep, being able to sleep again came back, it was, it was interesting, too, because, you know, at the time, you're told, you're going to die. And you might live for two years, but it's going to be a miserable two years, you're going to get sicker. So as we progress through the recovery from the surgery, and then, you know, I was bedridden and bound upstairs, couldn't get downstairs and then slowly, but surely you start to feel post surgery recovery happening and feeling a little better. The appetite starts to grow, sleep is improving. And then the next thing you know, I was downstairs in the living room. Next thing, you know, I'm walking up and down the driveway, which was a big accomplishment. But I felt good. You know, I didn't feel that I was getting sicker. I felt like I was healing. And then in the time, too, you know, I made it to town for for CT scans. And they always said they said, you know, you've to think that this won't spread and grow. And the scans were showing that even at the beginning, no spread no growth, other than these three lymph nodes affected. So what they came to conclusion was that the only hope that there was for medical intervention or medical assistance or some kind of treatment was to get on to a trial study with some of the newer immunotherapy drugs that were in the phase one trial phase study phases at the time.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  38:06

Before we get into that, I would like to ask a question, how did your physicians feel about the fact that you were plant based? Did they comment on it? Did they, you know, make negative derogatory comments? Did they tell you you needed to eat animal protein and stuff like that

Sheanne Moskaluk  38:21

our own doctor had dealt with me for two years beforehand, so dealt with I like that feel a lot of friction between him and I because he'd be saying one thing, and I realized for 20 years, I mean, he's been our physician for 20 years. So we had a good close relationship. But we were constantly arguing over things. And then if he really pissed me off, I show up at his office with data to study and I'd like you need to read this, you know, because you're wrong. And, you know, like, I wouldn't say it that way. But it was like so I was his red patient, I called myself. So I had been training him for two years. So he was very cognizant of our life supportive as well as super supportive because he'd seen me transition, you get healthier, seeing you get healthier, so he wasn't a problem. The surgeon we didn't really deal with him enough. But once are the oncologists we had issues with. And you know, what we can talk about that we'll talk about that reaction. But I have to say that during the time that Dan was bedridden upstairs, of course, you know, they always take tissue samples of the tumors and they do the whole, you know, grow them in a petri dish for seeing the doubling time, all of that kind of thing. And I got a call. And they said, you know, Dan wasn't able to take the call and I that so I did. And they said, you know, we're really sorry to tell you that this is an extremely aggressive form of cancer. And I remember hanging up the phone and thinking, that's it. We're done. We're done this, there's, you know, we've done our best and there's that's that's it. And what we've come to realize now is that The petri dish, or whatever they were doing in the lab was a very hospitable environment. And we had made Dan's body into an inhospitable environment for cancer. You were invited to go into this trial study.

Dan Moskaluk  40:14

Yeah. So the, the, the trial study was described with immunotherapy, a combination of drugs that they had looked at for other types of cancers. And that, because again, and it was always repeated, because you're such a healthy individual, you're a great candidate for this. You know, they were always remarking go back to the oncologist for the checkups, no blood pressure is good way to steady. All my blood markers were excellent. And aside from the cancer of terminal cancer, I was extremely healthy, which again, shows that you know, you can live with cancer until it starts to impede on one of your major organs or so on, just as you described earlier. So they said, again, another term that a lot of cancer patients will hear is that Wait and watch. They said, because you're so healthy. And that's your only, you know, opportunity or only option for for medical intervention is through a trial study, we can watch and wait and see what the cancer is going to do. We don't want to hinder you with trying another effective treatment because that would negate you getting on to as on to the trial study. So by March, I was sufficiently healed. They remarked always, when I went back in that my incision site was just unbelievably well heeled, there was no pink, you know, inflamed flasher, that that scar tissue was, in most part, just quite invisible. And they always remarked about that as well. It's heel, heel very, very well. They finally said, Yeah, okay, well, you've been successful. There is a study that starting here and out of Vancouver with a nipple, nipple nivolumab and ipilimumab which, interestingly enough, we just saw commercial recently because they they have been licensed. But so these were immune therapy, drugs and the the purpose of the drugs? Well, first of all, there's a trial study, you get that big pack of papers with all the side effects and so on. And there was one paragraph that really stood out and indicated that, you know, you're agreeing to get onto this trial study, and that you understand that this drug, or the combination of these drugs, the purpose of you getting onto the study is not to provide you with any personal benefit, or health improvement, but just the simple fact to, you know, to participate in the study of the drug itself. So essentially, you know, you're a guinea pig, so there's no expectation, or should you have it that it's going to improve your health.

Sheanne Moskaluk  42:43

And so we had to go to Vancouver, which is about a five hour drive for us down on the coast, where in the in the interior of the province. So we go to to meet with the oncologist, the lead oncologist to heading up this cancer clinic in Vancouver. And you know, because it's a trial one, which is basically experiment phase one, I say to him, I really liked it noted that were plant based, because if this isn't an experiment, you need to know all of the elements or factors. And that's where you say, raise, that's where we got the eye rolls, and that food doesn't matter 

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  43:18

Food doesn't matter wow!

Sheanne Moskaluk  43:20

nobody wants to know. And every time I was constantly going on and on about how we're plant based, it should be written down, it should be noted. And we've since had access to that whole file. And there's not one mention of us being plant based. No, at all. No. So and yet every time we go in, they go oh my gosh, you look so healthy. You're you know,

Dan Moskaluk  43:45

glowing, oh God, that glow. Everybody talks about you know, so yeah. So we we got on to this study, that was March of 2014. And again, so from diagnosed in November to March, those were scans almost every six weeks. And that's quite that's several months, there was no spread to other organs, there was no spread to my bones or bloods or any or, or more further masters ization. Okay, cancer, so it didn't spread. And that was prior to even getting on to the treatment. So the the protocol was to be for treatments of the combination of drugs every three weeks. And that would be followed by a maintenance program of the one drug every two weeks for the rest of my life, or as a quote unquote, as long as your body can injure it.

Sheanne Moskaluk  43:54

And because it was a trial study, we had to go to Vancouver. So you completely abdicate your life over to, you know, you drive down there for five hours, that's a whole day. He would have the treatment. It would wipe him out not as bad as chemo but he would be really tired and couldn't eat so we'd spend probably a day or two yeah tour two or three nights in Vancouver in a hotel. I'd bring him food he just be bed, then we drive home. And then we'd repeat. And it's like this, you know, you you start you think about, okay, this is what the rest of our life is going to be.

Dan Moskaluk  45:10

Yeah, every two weeks it was going to be Yeah. So it's Yeah. And you, it's you, it slides back to those first steps of there's first stages of the diagnosis, you never, you know, you're in, you're in a system, you're in the system, you're in the

Sheanne Moskaluk  45:25

You're a file number and your in the system.

Dan Moskaluk  45:27

So we, you know, they they described all the side effects of the drugs, the one that was the most concerning, they said, Okay, first of all, because it's immunotherapy, what it does, essentially bumps up your immune system, to a degree that it can get past the walls or blocks that the cancer puts up to hide behind. So it will seek out cancer cells and hopefully destroy them. But they said it was like opening a tiger's cage and not knowing what that wild animal is going to do. And there's a likelihood or a positive, I should say, likely, there's a possibility of one of the side effects was the drugs attacking either a healthy organ, or some other part of my system. So we managed to get through the third treatment of the combination of drugs. We got home one evening, a couple of days after I woke up with a fever, which again, in my protocols, anybody who's diagnosed with cancer knows that fever is a really big red flag. And so I woke up in the middle of the night with a slight fever, but fever nonetheless. And so I contacted I woke her up. And, you know, three o'clock in the morning, we got to go to the hospital, and you're fine, you're fine, you're fine. So I was like, No, I go. So we went to the hospital, the emergency ward again. And again, it was interesting, because normally when you go to the hospitals, always they dictate to you okay, we're going to do this, we're going to do that. They don't listen to you very much. But in this case is here when you're on a trial study, it seems that they don't know anything of what your protocols are. So the dialogue was very positive. And very, you know, they were full of questions. Well, what about this? What are we supposed to do? How about this? How about that? So they contacted the clinic, they were instructed as to what to do, and that was to draw blood. Unfortunately, that night, the the electronic system, the digital system for relaying information from the hospital to the to the cancer clinic was down that night. So they're only able to draw blood at about three o'clock in the morning. And they said, Okay, we're going to send it in, but it's going to be a while, so you might as well go home. So we went home and shut all the phones off, of course, because you're totally exhausted. And we woke up later on the morning, but 11 in the morning with all the lights flashing and then check one of the messages of the cancer clinic the guy was panicked. in Vancouver, so contacted him by phone, he says, Are you back at the hospital? I said no, they sent us home. He said, God you got to get back your your liver right now is the drugs have hit your liver, your drugs are attacking your liver. And he said that the test results they finally got them. And my liver was producing 25 times the normal enzyme levels that it normally does. And it was a near fatal side effect. So back to the hospital on two prednisone steroids intravenously every day. That was about a six month regime for the first month or so it was intravenous. I was like a souped up tweeting with ADHD. I woke up talking I fell asleep talking. I had energy galore I was eating like a pregnant woman

Sheanne Moskaluk  48:35

oh my god and angry

Dan Moskaluk  48:37

and angry happy mood swings it was yeah if it wasn't if the cancer wasn't going to kill me she

Sheanne Moskaluk  48:43

honestly for the first time in my life I realized what it would be like to live with somebody who was drugged on dependent on some kind of a drug right because it was a complete person knew it wasn't him. It was not the Dan I know knows. It was horrific.

Maya Acosta  49:00

And just to clarify again what you're talking about what led you up to this point the trials study and along with you know not only your labor your liver now sort of failing but now you have all this additional medications to take all of this was so that you your body could fight the perhaps the the few cancer cells that you might still have in your body. Right, because you said that the scans were not showing that there were there was any more cancer.

Dan Moskaluk  49:28

Yeah, they didn't show any growth are spread but I still have the remaining lymph node. So there was still you know, I had I had, there's at least three lymph nodes that were definitely visibly affected and cancerous in the sense that they were in large. So that was one of the markers that were they always looking at these three lymph nodes as to what they were doing, if they you know, but and then again, what they noted to even prior to or through this through the the treatment and I was immediately dismissed after that third treatment that third set So the last time that I, you know, now I can state that I haven't had medical intervention since May of 2014. And again, you're dismissed because they said that we would normally dismiss any individual where they had a liver attack where you would have five times the normal everleigh, enzymes, levels elevating, and I was at 25 times the normal level. So it was it was a near death experience in itself,

Sheanne Moskaluk  50:25

As I said in Eating You Alive. I mean, they don't you can't it's hard to get a drug to trial when you kill your trial patient study. Yeah, patients, right.

Dan Moskaluk  50:33

So we, I healed from from the liver attack. And eventually, and then the prednisone, of course, you know, they taper you off. That's very, very slowly so that your body starts recovering from it and recouping and doing what it's supposed to be doing. Without the predator zone, I there was no permanent damage to my liver. And again, they kind of shrugged their shoulders and looked at me and saying, wow, you know, like, you're Superman. And then so that fast forward us to the fall, no spread no growth. And then they started using the term your cancers are in remission. So every time we enter the oncologist office, you know, you go in there expecting, okay, what's going to happen? And then you'd walk out, like, gosh, we've won the lottery again for another few months here. And let's see what happens next. And then by that time, again, I am looking the way I do now I fully recovered from the surgery, I gained a little bit of muscle mass back, my energy levels were far better, and health was far better, again, prior to the surgery, or those years prior to adopting this lifestyle. So you just kind of go along, saying, Wow, this is pretty incredible. And then not, not ever, you know, I've never angry about the diagnosis, just saying, Okay, yeah, this has happened to me. And then, you know, we cried a lot. And we laughed a lot. But, you know, I always would pull myself out of those moments where you really start wallowing in it and saying to yourself, I don't know how much time I have, I cannot permit myself to waste any time as to feeling you know, this way. You pull yourself through it. And and really being mindful, we've always been mindful, and we're fortunate we live in such a beautiful location. Yeah, the geography. We live a beautiful lifestyle here, you know, country lifestyle, and always been mindful of that as a shift worker, seeing the 24 hour clock of day night seasonal changes. It's always everything. I've always been mindful, but through the cancer, when you're sitting there introspectively thinking what's going on around you and just, you know, appreciating things more was really, really,

Sheanne Moskaluk  52:43

yes, impactful. So that whole summer, you know, he was on prednisone, that was horrific. But as they started to wean him off, his liver was okay. He was off any cancer treatment, no medical treatment at all. And when they said that, he was supposed to get worse and die. He was just getting better and better, healthier and healthier. And 

Dan Moskaluk  53:07

Yeah we go into the cancer clinic for another appointment. And we you know, walk in looking like this. They're kind of people sitting there, you know, in the waiting room that looking very ill and even, you know, it's just like, oh,

Sheanne Moskaluk  53:18

what were they Why are they here here kind of thing. So so then that led us into this spring, you had a scan? 

Dan Moskaluk  53:25

Yeah So we had a the one of the one of the last scans was about round December got the results back in January, February. And we walked in again, not knowing what which show. And this looked down at the file. And it was funny, because I had was having oncologist kind of tag teaming up for my file because I was such an intriguing case where I had a few oncologists who saw several different ones who would like Oh, so you're this individual. And this is very intriguing. This is a very interesting case here. And so that one last meeting that appointment, she looked at it, she closed the file, that's relief physically, and instead, we're closing your file, you're cancer free your cancers radiologically undetectable. And to hear that was just like, wow. And, and again, but because of I felt Well, you know, so you're like, Okay, this is great. And then we walked out, they said, if you were to walk in today, we would turn you around because you have no business being in here. And there's nothing we would do for you could do for you. And there's nothing further we can do for you now. That was that was February 2015.

Sheanne Moskaluk  54:31

Yeah. So you know what the odd thing is, is that, you know, everybody says they want to cure cancer. Dan's went away the closest file and sent him home. Why isn't there a team at our house looking at what we eat, when we go to bed? What kind of toilet paper you use, you know, like, laundry soap, like all of those things. Yeah.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  54:53

Why aren't they studying the guy who conquered cancer?

Sheanne Moskaluk  54:56

Right, exactly. Right. Exactly. So you know that kind of led us into the lifestyle that we're where we are now we, you know, eating a lot eating you alive was just a crazy thing to get into that was such a such a fluke to be able to be participating in that

Dan Moskaluk  55:16

I took two years off work. So I was off for two years. And once post surgery once post treatment, and then you know, cancer free then I started focusing again on on fitness levels. And, you know, the are we you know, even with Shawn through the years of her, you know, adopting this lifestyle, we weren't ever gym rats are into fitness, you know, she walked, that was all we would ever do 5k, 2K, you know, about three miles up the road hills, and then back down to the house. And so I waited to the fall of you know, of 2015. And I went, I went back to work. And everybody, you know, I came back to work and everybody's like, Wow, you look terrific. But you had terminal cancer. So with just a little bit of cancer

Sheanne Moskaluk  56:03

touch you can Oh,

Dan Moskaluk  56:05

yeah, stage four kidney cancer is terminal, apparently. And you know, 5% the other amazing thing is that, you know, the statistics are there's a 5% survival odds to the five year mark for stage four renal cell carcinoma. In other words, I had a 95% chance of dying, and I didn't the cancer didn't spread, the cancer didn't grow. I got healthier, I didn't just survive. I thrived.

Maya Acosta  56:31

Congratulations

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  56:33

Yeah, that's amazing story. Absolutely amazing. And, and you got me convinced that it's your plant based lifestyle that contributed to your recovery. Obviously, the surgery was an important aspect. And but no doubt, you took control of your health and and decided which direction you were going to take your life in.

Maya Acosta  56:55

I always wonder about cancer survivors and how they feel everyday I know that you appreciate every day that you're living and you're doing so much more than the average person. I mean, you have so many things that that drive you today, but there's still that a little bit of here there.

Dan Moskaluk  57:09

Yeah, definitely. I think it I don't think that will ever go away. But again, with the mindset that you have to have, or hopefully have is that, you know, like I say, you know, you you you get up in the morning, you open your eyes pop open, you say okay, today is another day, let's get let's, let's see what kind of day it is. And then you get through the day. And then you jump into bed again. You close your eyes and go to sleep. And then you repeat.

Sheanne Moskaluk  57:34

And I think for the first little while it was hard for us to plan. Like I remember my mom saying, would you guys like to come for lunch next week. And I'm like, next week, I can't think about next week. I just that's too far ahead. And she just couldn't get that. And, and it took such a long time for us to even start planning again, to think about a month or two months out. Yeah. And now we're, you know, optimistically thinking for the future. But there's always this little thing in the back end regardless, maybe regardless of what happens.

Dan Moskaluk  58:06

I do know that I've had the seven years that I've had that I didn't think I would so we're very appreciative of every this

Sheanne Moskaluk  58:13

summer, you had a little bit of a scare. Yeah,

Dan Moskaluk  58:15

yeah, it was interesting, too. Because you know, you're one of the issues of that what developed was because of the massive surgery created scar tissue. So that was in August, I believe, July. So in July, one day, I wake up, I've got abdominal pain, and I'm thinking, Oh, something I ate or so on so forth. And it was very, very severe. And I was again buckled in pain. So in a flash, you're back to that, oh, gosh, what's going on? I went to the hospital. They did. And it was interesting, because they you know, local hospital again, they had all my previous record, they were so good. And you know, I walked through the door, they had everything set up, they took the scans. And for that moment prior to talking to the doctor, again, is going to be it so there was a 50 50 chance and it was funny because he came back and he was pretty soft spoken guy and he sat down beside me. And I'm looking at him. And he's not saying anything that I look he he gives me a little fist bump. I'm like, okay, a fist bump maybe is good. And he says it's not cancer. What's going on is you've got a bowel obstruction as well. Yeah. Because of the scar tissue around around the bowels what had happened of course that scar tissue kind of interferes with the function and kind of messes up the areas around the bowel. So it was bowel obstruction. So again, but thinking okay, well what does this mean? He's while you're being hospitalized today for at least three days. So So what?

Sheanne Moskaluk  59:46

And it was so interesting because this of course it's during COVID so I couldn't even go into the house. Yeah, I was waiting in the parking lot. For I think four hours while he's having all these tests and you you're thinking moments in our lives. Again forever. Yeah. And I couldn't even be with him. Yeah. And then and then it was just about it's

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:00:07

just yeah.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:00:08

And then I was jealous because he got a medically supervised fast. Yeah.

Dan Moskaluk  1:00:14

Yeah, it had had a few downsides to it. The first one was an mg nasal gastro tube. And yeah, so that was about a tube about, I don't know, 32 inches down through my sinuses into my stomach, to, to, you know, clear up and suction out the backlog. And it was a very, very unpleasant, I've gone through a lot of things of rotator cuff surgeries, the surgery from the cancer, but this mg thing, man, it was, but I really I kept thinking too, because what happened, of course, then you get nauseous and you're throwing up, and then I'm throwing stuff up and like, Wow, this looks really quick. It's PCs, but I'm plant based. And it didn't smell as bad. But and then there's more your junior nurses were just mortified. And I later learned to my doctors Oh, yeah, at the end. That's one we always give that to the junior nurses.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:01:15

Also light hearted because it's not cancerous. I can

Dan Moskaluk  1:01:18

say. And then So there I was again. Yeah, in the hospital for three days or four days, but five vials. Yeah. And then blood pressure twice a day. And I'm asking for my blood pressure. I'm jotting it down. I was like, mid 60s. And you know, it was just incredible blood pressure. I was like, Wow, that's great. So they're looking at you like I recovered from it. So but again, there's always that kind of thing in the back your head. Is this gonna reoccur

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:01:47

that that certainly struck terror that first those first hours until we got the real diagnosis. You're just you're it's panic.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:01:57

Well, but now you have a seven year follow up that shows you're clear. So

Dan Moskaluk  1:01:59

that's right.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:02:00

There you go

Dan Moskaluk  1:02:01

was exactly right. Because that's the one thing I've kind of put off doing the CT scans for a couple of years now. Because those again, you go into the room, you're sitting down that that machine sound. It's an emotional roll.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:02:15

Yeah. We have an older gentleman we interviewed with stage four prostate cancer, and he's gone plant based and improve, but he won't go back for evaluations. He just doesn't want to know. Yeah. Because they've told they told him the same thing, go home and prepare. There's nothing we can do for you. And so then he said, well, then why should I go back? I'd rather not know I've already changed my lifestyle. I'm living the best life I can. things have improved. So there's that, you know, there's at plus one way or the other? Do I want to get the bad news? Because is it going to change anything?

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:02:47

It's really tough questions. Yeah. So you know, we've just, hey,

Dan Moskaluk  1:02:52

Whatever happens in the future happens, but for now, we know that it's just been a phenomenal experience, not only, you know, surviving it too, as well. But what we've been able to share and impart and hopefully assist people in you know, when we've gone on to this, you know, plant based health advocacy as, as, as keynote speakers and providing content or creating content on our social media platforms, and Shawn's fabulous plant based cooking now. And when you get somebody a total stranger in a public place, that's when he taps you on the shoulder and you turn around and somebody just says thank you very much for what you've done for us. I'm so and so we heard about your story. We've done this, this is what it's done for me, thank you. There's There's nothing like it, you know, police work has been very, very rewarding to assist, you know, victims and so on. But But this here, you know, teaching people how to advocate for themselves and instead of advocating their health, yeah,

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:03:49

Yeah, it's, I mean, just by changing what's on the end of our fork has changed our lives in every possible aspect. It's just, it's, it's it was bigger than getting married, it was bigger than having babies, it was just completely life changing. Yeah. And so we carry on we, we started this for health, and then animal ethics became a large part of our lives as well. And we've become quite active animal activists.

Dan Moskaluk  1:04:24

Because it's when you're starting out to this, you know, when I never had a tablet, you know, I'm sitting there recovering, and I'm hooked onto social media, then you start reading and learning about, you know, the animal agricultural system, you know, the health facts about it, but then what the system is and what we do to animals. And then you add in the climate to environmental impacts of animal agriculture, you're like, Holy crow, and again, we've never been told all this or taught this and as a police officer, I am evidence based, I seek to collect information, credible information and And that is verified and is supposed to be what is the truth or but evidence based so then when you get into this aspect of what, you know what we've been told all our lives and then you learn otherwise, again you a little angry, but you're very hopeful as Okay, certain things can be turned around.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:05:19

It was you know before you know, I've always thought of myself as an animal lover now what I realized I was a pet lover, but you know, you would, on my walks, I would pass a large pasture of cows and I'd always I'd always feel bad and guilty and but I'd say like, Oh gee, sorry, guys, but we need to eat you to be healthy. But then when you realize that it is completely the opposite to that, and how animals are actually arrive on your plate, and that they go through so much suffering to cause us so much suffering? It just becomes ludicrous. Yeah. And then when we find out that animal agriculture is destroying the planet, you know, through, you know, on many levels, you know, top soil degradation, deforestation, species loss, denso, the oceans, you know, second leading cause of greenhouse gas emissions. It's just, it's it. It's just like, wow, we need to say something about this, we need to do something about this. Yeah,

Maya Acosta  1:06:17

We've been following you guys and seeing how active you are, and then COVID hit? How have you guys been able to stay active?

Dan Moskaluk  1:06:25

Yeah, that's been I think everybody's experienced that anybody who is you know, advocating for whichever cause that with with respect to, you know, animal rights activism or, or in advocating this, it's it's a lot of outreach. So a lot of physical street outreach, where you're trying to engage with the general public face to face the with the marches, be it with protests, or, or the street advocacy with, you know, the anonymous for the voiceless, or the Earthlings experiences and other one where that's just showing TV screens or computers with some of the images of animal agriculture. So that has been tough. And I think as many of us have done, is we're back onto the keyboards than online. But I think what has been remarkable and as we you know, here we are, again, today on another podcast, is the interconnectivity of everybody online with the seminars and webinars. And summit's, it's just the the content in the caliber that has come forth, you know, the, the what we've seen this year online, that has been tremendous to see. And I think hopefully, to what that's done, I think it's doing it certainly is that we're outside the echo chamber. Now, there's a lot of people that might not have been exposed to all this information, there's so much of it now. And then when we look at, you know, commercially and in with respect to consumerism, you know, plant based nutrition and plant based foods and vegan food, for all the multitude of reasons, it's out there now, 

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:08:00

Yep it definitely gained traction.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:08:02

It is, you know, I think, uh, you know, we identify as whole food plant based vegans, because, of course, vegan is the ethical aspect, whole food plant based is the health aspect. You know, it's, it's kind of hard for people to, you're getting into the weeds, but we really advocate for a whole food plant based lifestyle, because as much as these vegan foods are really great for transitioning, and they're better for the animals and are better for the environment. I don't think you're going to reach optimal health by eating these things. So it's, it's kind of this fine line that you walk, that you support them because you want to see less suffering for the animals in the environment. And food but but we're not advocating that people eat them so much. It's like, you know, people are always You must have heard there's so much controversy about beyond meat and impossible burgers and, and it's always well, what is it? Is it better than what is it better than broccoli? No. Is it better than a beef burger? Yes. So it's, that's kind of an interesting, we're at this interesting, interesting cross section of trying to advocate for both

Dan Moskaluk  1:09:16

But there's no doubt there's no doubt even in the general public now. You know, years ago, the term vegan Okay, you know, people started becoming familiar with it. Now, people are not only familiar with the term vegan, they're familiar with the terminology of whole food plant based. And that's, that's really incredible. When you talk about moving mountains, that we might not see we're doing inch by inch, but when you take a look back as to that long term, what's been accomplished is pretty amazing with again, with we have, you know, healthcare providers and physicians such as yourselves and you know, couples that have these, these skill sets that can combine

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:09:53

and what we're really seeing now is that some of the summits that have always been just health based or Now weaving in the ethical, they're having, like I just watched the plant fit summit they had Damien Manders on and they had a captain from Sea Shepherd. And I just, I just thought that was such a wonderful mix to have in with all of the, you know, the powerhouses of the plant based world, but from the health aspect and then just start weaving in some of the ethical and environmental, I just love it. 

Maya Acosta  1:10:27

And and the reason I think that is so important is because it helps us to connect with our why, right, we become whole food plant based for the sake of health, well, we might, you know, wander off again, for whatever reason, maybe start adding some animal products. But when your why is strong enough, for example, for the planet, that we can contribute to making this planet healthier, or that we're no longer contributing to the suffering of animals and those wise is so important to keep us eating whole food plant based, 

Dan Moskaluk  1:10:58

powerful, because there's no, you know, the argument or the debate is, you know, well how effective, there's no other there's no other way or personal contribution that you can make, you know, not everybody can afford a $90,000 electrical car, we know shorter showers ain't gonna cut it or light bulb, you know, changes are gonna do it. But what you do three times a day, every day of the year, every year of your life, the food on your plate has such a massive effect on the outcome of what's going to happen next for for our planet. And for us as a civilization as a species and the other species. 

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:11:35

And even if you're wholesome plant based, and you're the healthiest human specimen on the planet, if you don't have a planet to live on, what's the point?

Maya Acosta  1:11:44

And you guys were in that summit, the planted summit?

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:11:47

Yes,

Dan Moskaluk  1:11:48

yeah, a couple of times that we've been fortunate we've and again, that just goes to show you the connectivity that with this community, and that, you know, not not just as a presenter, but as participants or, you know, attendees, there's so much information available from credible individuals that, you know, it's mind boggling. It's, you know, from definitely from grassroots level up, as to the people that are passionate about this, imparting this knowledge to help others. It's just it's an amazing community. Yeah,

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:12:19

I mean, I think the internet is known for a lot of misinformation. But my god, there's some really great information is well, if you look at the right spot, so so we carry on we have we are, lots of people reach out to us who have been diagnosed, particularly with cancer, but other chronic diseases as well. And while we're not doctors like you is that we can't give that kind of advice. We give them advice on what to eat and what we did, and the whys. Yeah, why and what we did, and help them how to do this. And I'm, you know, I'm, I've always been so grateful that I had this in place when Dan's diagnosis came along. Because I understand that it's a lot of work to change everything in your kitchen, and how you grocery shop, and how you cook. And I understand to how fragile you are, when those diagnosis diagnoses come along. So, I mean, I think that's one of our messages as well as do it now. Don't wait till the 11th hour, make those changes now. And you're golden, you know, your, your, as you move along, it gets easier and easier. And come what may, you'll be in better shape to him what

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:13:34

I might add, you know, you know, there's other reasons like right now we're in the middle of this COVID crisis. And, and, and the major, the major risk factors for for, you know, succumbing to COVID are obesity, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, and hypertension. And so why not just, you know, change your health now take control of your health and improve those things and and lessen your risk for for Coronavirus death.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:14:02

Exactly. And I think, you know, God forbid, we are exposed, you know, we have a really robust gut biome. You know, our immune systems are much tougher. So it as it is now, it's kind of like, you know, you're like, oh, gee, I don't feel that what I think I think I just had the flu for an hour, and then it's gone. 

Dan Moskaluk  1:14:21

Oh, allergy symptoms have been, you know, almost disappeared. I used to have sinus issues, sleep patterns are far more improved moods. One of the issues that I've often speak about as well, two years ago, I kind of ignored several symptoms that, you know, really bothered Sheanne as to some of the behaviors that I was exhibiting, and I kind of put it off, there was alcohol abuse and consumption that several, you know, back in 2009, or Oh, wait that I had to come back. And then finally facing the issues of Well, perhaps I was suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I kind of thought, Okay, I'm going to get a handle on things, unofficially. And perhaps I'm exhibiting symptoms, and I'm going to work on this, I want to improve our relationship, I want to prove her our family life, and you know, the alcohol consumption came into check was better. And once I got onto a plant based diet and lifestyle, then you start to see some of the emotional changes in your your mood, and just your well being. And then once I got post cancer, I was in a mindset that, okay, if I can handle this, I got through this. Now, again, I've really got to revisit this because I was about to retire. And I thought I not walking out the door for my organization without getting possible treatment, or looking at seriously what was going on for that near decade. And so I did, I went into counseling, and I was formally diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder. And then again, when you start doing more research with respect to the brain, and so on, and other organ functions, then you find out that the brain's main fuel is glucose, which we know comes from complex carbohydrates, complex carbohydrates, or plants. And that what the difference is, is consuming complex carbohydrates what it can do for for leveling off those moods. And in general, your well being and you might want to interject Dr. Riz on that, or seratonin. Yeah,

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:16:26

well, yeah, I mean, I agree. And you know, this, this Western diet is so full of the simple sugars and high fructose corn syrup, and all these artificial flavors and things that dramatically alter our diet and our metabolism, and the processed foods as well. And so yeah, you we are, I can see, where we're dramatically altering things and changing, and then also its effect on the gut and the gut microbiome, which I think is very important in our immune system, as well as our home hormone system, you know, not in so many respects. It's, it's fascinating to me, though, you know, the the the keto issue and how people will push that, you know, I firmly believe I describe it, as, you know, we have these we have diesel engines, we have gasoline engines, we are carbohydrate engines, you know, don't try to make us run on something else, you know, and, and we were efficient, and we run the best on carbohydrates.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:17:20

Yeah. And then we see, you know, epidemic rates of depression. And, and it well, of course, we're not feeding the brain, the fuel. 

Dan Moskaluk  1:17:28

And again, it's, it's unfortunate because, you know, people go to the ends of the earth to try and figure this out and to provide support to our first responders that are suffering from depression, post traumatic stress disorder. And there's little talk about nutrition. And it was interesting when I was looking at the PTSD Association of Canada's webpage, they talked about neuro nutrition. And then again, there was another aha moment, they had it 99.9% accurate, where they had an infographic was all plant based foods, legumes, nuts, seeds, vegetables, fruits, so on and water. And but then they had a small symbol fish for lean proteins, like no clothes. So that's a start. That's

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:18:09

It it? Yeah. 

Dan Moskaluk  1:18:10

So I knew that. Yeah, you know that again, you don't have to die of this diagnosis, you can live with it. And if you want to minimize the symptoms and eliminate symptoms, possibly 100% nutrition is so important. And it has proven itself to me again, to with that condition as to what is done for me, and I don't know where I would be now. Well, with the cancer and also with the PTSD, I, I really didn't hold out much hope at the time. So got over the one I thought no, I can, if I can handle that I can I can look at this, and get a handle on it. And we certainly have Yeah, yeah.

Maya Acosta  1:18:51

Part of the way that you're gonna continue to outreach share your story and encourage others is through some of the virtual programs that you guys are going to be part of the plant based eating support group. Did it just pass? 

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:19:02

We are speakers that at this at their series. We were the first speakers of the series. So 

Dan Moskaluk  1:19:09

it is yeah, she's a holistic nutritionist in Campbell River, which is Alabama Powell river, just a few hours from us, small community, Powerhouse Vegan Community. We're there in 2017 for their their first bench test.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:19:22

Yeah. But so we speak on that we seem to be asked to speak on a lot of different places, which is still pinch me moments because it's like here we are just these really basic ordinary people that have to change what they eat and change everything and now people seek us out. It's quite interesting. Um, one of the things you know that COVID shut down as well is that I was a co-facilitator for the CHIP program here the complete Health Improvement Program, which I am so sad that shut down because, of course, you know, that's such a phenomenal program five week boot. Can't we do the bloodwork at the beginning bloodwork at 19 years in our community? Yeah. 20 actually, and and you can't argue with the bloodwork right, and you, you get these I've seen particularly husbands get dragged into these programs, and they sit there with their arms crossed, and I don't want to be here, and I'm not doing this. And by the end of the five weeks, they're so gung ho, and then they get their blood results back. And there's actually, you know, people are overcome with joy, and there are tears. And that is such a high for me, I just love that. And so I'm really sad that that shut down, and we're trying to figure out how to somehow do it virtually. But we also do so much on hands on, you know, cooking samples and grocery store tours. So it's hard to replicate that in a virtual setting. But so so, you know, we're, we're kind of got our fingers in a million different pies.

Dan Moskaluk  1:20:56

Yeah. Um, which is great. Because, again, you know, in you know, we've never monetized what we do and we kind of, and that's the again the the beauty of this new movement, there's so many people doing this just for the basic fact and because they're so compassionate want to help others and there's nothing more intrinsically and volunteerism,

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:21:15

yes, it's, uh, you know, you had your life rooted in service as a as a police officer and, and, and your life route in service now.

Dan Moskaluk  1:21:23

Yeah, definitely.

Maya Acosta  1:21:24

And hearing each one of your stories again, it's you both have said it, but you know, you give people hope with Sheanne, when I heard your story in the movie, the first time, I was very touched, when you talked about feeling like you were a spectator, in your own families, you know, outings and events. So you have given people with weight issues, a lot of hope. And then when I finally met you in person, I just thought you were so beautiful. I remember saying to Riz, how elegant you looked in your dresses on the cruise. So beautiful. And you're so photogenic, too.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:22:00

You could have seen me I was outside painting just before this did not look photogenic.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:22:05

But you clean up good.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:22:08

And I have to say I was a it took Dan, Dan really encouraged me to publish my before and after pictures that was so hard for me to do, because I did feel so much shame associated to those pictures. And he said, Well, you know, if you really want to help people, if you really want to inspire people, you'll need to share this. And so I did, and it did have such a huge impact on people. And it does give them hope. But you know, it's interesting, when you talk about the whole fat shaming thing, I, I feel like I'm in a position where you know how you can make jokes about your own mama, but God forbid anybody else makes you. So I'm in this privileged position of having been obese, that I can actually comment on about, about obesity and being overweight. Because, you know, that was me, you cannot fat You know, I'm not fat shaming, this is me. And I think that our society has really gotten into this dangerous place where it's such a taboo topic, and you see all of these, even supermodels now who are plus sizes. And that it's it's normalizing being obese, and it's like, oh, I'm happy, I'm just want to be happy with me, or I'm happy in my my own skin. But that's such a dangerous message. Because it's not just you know, and I think everybody should be treated with respect no matter what size they are, obviously. But what people are missing. And what society is normalizing is that these people who are obese, these young women in particular, are going to have trouble in their pregnancies are at a higher risk for cardiac disease or higher risk for diabetes. You know, there's so many issues associated with it, just coming right down to joint pain. I mean, I remember my knees were always aching. So I see that there's so many young women now that are, you know, obesity used to be for our grandmothers. And now it seems to have shifted down down down to now we have children who are being obese, and they're not understanding what the long term consequences or even the short term consequences are. So I think that's a really important message to get through to is that you're not just losing weight, to look better to get back into your wedding dress. You're getting, you're setting the foundation of how you're going to live for the rest of your life. And what what could possibly go wrong if you don't make those changes?

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:24:37

Yeah, and I think it's it's a for too long, we've made it about how you look whether you're pretty or not or handsome and whether you're in good shape and and I think it's good that society is trying to get away from that judgment. But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we want people to be healthy. And so we should promote the health aspects. Rather rather than the judgmental aspects of

Maya Acosta  1:25:00

Absolutely. And so, Dan, you've managed to share your story in another documentary as well.

Dan Moskaluk  1:25:06

Yeah, actually, it was interesting because we've got a film producer here in Vancouver. Gary Charbonneau had an excellent film come out a couple years ago. It was exposing the Vancouver Aquarium, so the animal rights, issues of captivity and so on. So he reached out to us and said, I've got this new film that's coming out. And it's with respect to the animal testing module in model in medical testing, and how you know, how faulty a system that has been. And so we said, Sure, well give you an interview. I don't know how applicable it's going to be or what I can, you know, provide, but so again, as documentaries, you kind of go and do the interview, and he got back to us last year, as a couple years ago, now that I gave the interview. And you always figure out, I'm going to end up on the cutting room floor, who knows what so he contacted us. Yeah, the film is finally coming out. It's been selected for the just this week was the international vegan Film Festival played throughout the week. And his film was selected. And the title that he he chose was the medical illusion. And it was interesting, because it was all on the medical aspects and scientific evidence with respect to how faulty animal testing is. And he didn't touch very hardly went to the animal ethics side of things. It was all about the science. And it turned out there were several cancer diagnoses that were interviewed in the film. So then that was my aha, now I understand why you wanted me on it. Because I was, you know, part of the system with respect to, you know, to trial face study. And so it was a very good film was an excellent topic. And so yeah, we're now you know, one film, Samuel Jackson is a co star with us. Now, this other film is different topic, but very much related. Again, our advocacy as a police officer, I've been advocating to assist victims of crime and victims of violence for 33 and a half years, and knowing what victimization is to prevent victimization, and to bring those to justice who victimize others. So then when you start learning about the animal agricultural system, the the the the level of brutality that is levied against these animals, and what they suffer is some of the most brutal violence that I've ever seen or witnessed as a police officer. So now, I've just changed the species that I advocate for. And it's, you know, all species. And, you know, it's interesting, because, you know, I've been involved with some gruesome criminal activity of homicides, and so on, and abductions and things, and we see dead victims. And then with the animal agriculture system, we see what that victim looks like and feels and goes through before they're killed. And it's still so my last breath, I will be, you know, helping these victims and seeing if we can reduce the victimization and eliminated hopefully, one day.

Maya Acosta  1:28:15

Mm hmm. Wonderful. Do you guys have any final words for our listeners? words of encouragement,

Dan Moskaluk  1:28:21

just try it.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:28:21

Just try it. Just

Dan Moskaluk  1:28:22

try it. Oh, do it,

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:28:23

do it for a month. And I really think you know, we live next to a lake Dan dives in, I creep. Yeah, you sound

Dan Moskaluk  1:28:33

like cold water now.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:28:35

Just dives in and I creep in. And it's like, every inch is painful. And meanwhile itself, you know, up to maybe my mid thigh and he's splashing having a lovely time. So I think the analogy is dive in, because you'll enjoy it that much faster. If you just I know that a lot of people say take the baby steps. But I really think that if you dive in, you're going to see, you know, big changes bring big results. And that brings big motivation. And your taste buds change that much faster. And as a police officer, you know, Dan would come across, you know, lifelong addicts that he had dealt with, and they'd be cleaned suddenly, how did you do it? I went cold turkey. I quit. I quit, because nobody ever gets over a heroin addiction by just doing it every Sunday. So, you know,

Dan Moskaluk  1:29:25

I just Yeah, yeah, I and I think to, like you said when you start to see and then if you can get that baseline test done, you know, collaborate with your physician, if you've got, like I say, prior medical situations going on, monitor your medication. But when you get that baseline bloodwork at the beginning, and then within boats, you know, six weeks or two months and see what the results are. Unbelievable. 

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:29:48

It's amazing how quick it happens, right? I'll manage patients for a lifetime with a hypertension pill, a diabetes pill, a cholesterol pill and you're just managing them and they never get better. And then they go on plant based diet, a whole food plant based diet. And two months later, all these things are normal. It's amazing.

Dan Moskaluk  1:30:06

We refer to it as the trifecta of this lifestyle, be it for your health, the health of the planet, or the animals pick a door to go through. And I guarantee you'll walk through the other two doors as well. Yeah. And when you combine all three of them together, it's like, wow, the only thing you'll regret is not doing it sooner.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:30:24

Yeah, it's a very powerful motivator. Mm hmm. You

Dan Moskaluk  1:30:26

know, we're on social media platforms with Indian rock vegans on Instagram. And Facebook is our group pages where you know, we have information, we direct people, to the experts such as yourselves, we share the information. We're trying to create more content of the cooking and the food, john,

Maya Acosta  1:30:43

you're doing cooking demos,

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:30:45

I try to be more dedicated. I'm not against Facebook, that's where we do all of the health aspects of everything. And we were offered a membership as brand ambassadors at a gym and orange. And so when they had to close down for COVID, they went virtual, and they asked us to do cooking shows, making demos. So we did that for a while for them. And we just put snippets of those because it wasn't our content that belong to orange fitness. But so we want to do more of those. But we also have a seven acre acreage that keeps us really busy as well. And we seem to be a vegan dropins Center. People that are traveling that that we never say no. So we have a constant flow of people slow down with COVID Yeah, we a lot of people like camping in our driveway or, you know, but it's it's quite astounding

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:31:47

when we get our camper, we're gonna be boondocking with you guys.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:31:51

That would be great. We would love to see you guys up here.

Maya Acosta  1:31:54

So we've seen the animals on the property. So those animals are your well are they kind of pass her eyes or go when you see me with pain?

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:32:01

Yes, where are they? Those are sanctuaries that I volunteer as being an animal rights activists, you see a lot of horrific things. And I just felt that I needed to have, I need to see animal happy animals. So I started volunteering for sanctuaries. And that has been wonderful. It has been wonderful to be a part of rescues. We rescued calves from the dairy industry that were due to slaughter, and we bottle fed them it was it was actually really, they come so diseased and unhealthy, that everyone involved got so sick. And I don't think people understand how diseased the animals are everybody associated with those calves, had to go on antibiotics. We all got respiratory issues we all got it was it was really quite a real eye opener. 

Dan Moskaluk  1:33:00

But they survive, they

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:33:01

survive and care. And the vet said it would have been, he really didn't think that they would make it because they don't get their mother's colostrum. They don't get the antibiotics because they're just being sent off to slaughter. So our dairy herds are living on antibiotics. It's the only thing that's keeping them surviving. And it was shocking how everybody got sick are the sanctuary vet actually quarantined the farm because of how everybody was so ill. So but that's it was wonderful to bottle feed those babies and see them grow into healthy cows. Their ladder bows

Dan Moskaluk  1:33:39

are just puppies. Yeah.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:33:41

And the pigs is well,

Maya Acosta  1:33:44

there's pigs that have been rescued from industry as well. And it's just wonderful to have a relationship with those kind of animals and to see if pigs in particular are so intelligent. They're so amazing. When you connect with those animals, you're reminded of why you're making the choices that you're making, like Dan said, every day, you know, three times a day, we make this choice to eat plant based so that we don't contribute to, to the horrific things that these animals go through.

Dan Moskaluk  1:34:12

Either no different than any other animal that we have as companions.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:34:16

Yeah, in fact, pigs are smarter than dogs. So it's quite amazing. So yeah, so that's another thing that I like to do as well. So and I think it helps I use that on on our social media platforms as well as I talk about the animals that I'm having this relationship with and what their lives would have been like had they been actually in the animal agriculture industry because I was in my mid 40s after having two babies and nursed them, and yet I thought cows ate grass and made mil How did I not know that they

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:34:51

need to give birth as a mammal to produce milk? Because we're so veiled from the truth. There's just amazing amount of information that's just it's how can help Do they keep it secret from the general public? Or, or the general public just puts blinders on and doesn't want to know.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:35:05

So just trying to lift the veil in that respect?

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:35:08

Well, guys, oh, you know, we could talk forever. You know, it's been, it's been fun. It's been fun catching up. And we've really enjoyed having you on the show. I think everyone's gonna enjoy listening to this and watching this and we want to encourage people to reach out and join your Facebook group and, and support you guys

Maya Acosta  1:35:27

will include all the links on there.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:35:29

So great to see you guys.

Dan Moskaluk  1:35:30

You guys. You guys have been quite the inspiration for us as well. And you know, we all work together and encourage one another and provide that energy to,

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:35:39

to keep doing what we do. We're looking forward to the day where we can meet in person again.

Maya Acosta  1:35:43

Yeah, this

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:35:44

is fun. All right.

Maya Acosta  1:35:45

Thank you so much for your time.

Dr. Rizwan Bukhari  1:35:47

Take care. Bye bye. All right. Thank you.

Sheanne Moskaluk  1:35:49

Bye now.

Maya Acosta  1:35:50

been listening to the Plant Based DFW podcast show. If you like our content, please like, share and leave a review. Our goal is to provide quality episodes to help support the community.